The neXt Curve reThink Podcast

AI Diversity & Intel's Roadmap to Survival and Beyond (with Karl Freund)

• Leonard Lee, Karl Freund • Season 6 • Episode 42

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September 2024 was a ridiculously eventful month in the world of semiconductors and AI. With the news cycle dominated by conjecture, rumors, and curious proposals shrouding the future of Intel after what can only be described as a unexpectedly bad quarter, the competitive landscape in the data center, GenAI supercomputing, and AI PC continues to intensify while surfacing questions of the value and impact of GenAI as OpenAI looks to reinvent itself with some funding from friends.

Karl and Leonard discuss the following happenings in the world of chips and AI:

  • Fem.AI (Cadence Giving Foundation) - Diversity matters in tech & AI (2:17)
  • Big news in the world of AI and chips in September 2024 (10:01)
  • Making sense out of tumultuous and difficult times at Intel (11:02)
  • The price Intel paid for competitive pivots (13:14)
  • Intel's long roadmap to competitiveness and leadership (15:22)
  • The impact of Qualcomm's Oryon CPU & Snapdragon X Series (18:30)
  • OpenAI secures investment to reinvent itself (19:44)
  • Cerebras files for IPO. What does it mean for GenAI supercomputing? (23.58)

Connect with Karl Freund at www.cambrian-ai.com. Hit both of us on LinkedIn and take part in our industry and tech insights. 

Please subscribe to our podcast which will be featured on the neXt Curve YouTube Channel. Check out the audio version on BuzzSprout - https://nextcurvepodcast.buzzsprout.com - or find us on your favorite Podcast platform.  

Also, subscribe to the neXt Curve research portal at www.next-curve.com for the tech and industry insights that matter.

Next curve.

Leonard Lee:

Hey everyone. Welcome to next curve. We think webcast podcast and our analyst corner. I'm Leonard Lee, executive analyst at next curve. And in this episode of Silicon futures, where we cover the stuff happening in the semiconductor industry and the whole universe. Exciting universe of AI, we cover all the stuff that matters and just want to welcome my partner here. My collaborator, my friend, Carl Freund. Hi everybody. Yeah, and he is the founder and principal analyst at Cambrian hyphen AI research LLC. Thanks for calling hyphen. Yeah, I figure I wouldn't forget that. I had to do it. Oh, there's another Cambrian and I needed my smartphone to remember that because my memory, all my attention has been displaced to devices. So, but yeah, Hey, Carl is the leading analyst, I think. Can I say that covering the works for me, but

Karl Freund:

you have this affinity for certainly get a lot of coverage on Forbes. That's for sure. Yeah, free read, read my stuff there. Go to Cameron dot com and see what I think and disagree with me. That's fine. Have a good dialogue. That's what this is all about. Leonard and I disagree on as many things as we agree on.

Leonard Lee:

Probably. If not, probably. But you know what debate is where we're not here to be we're not here to yeah, we are here to be right. But

Karl Freund:

hopefully we'll be here to be a little provocative too. There's a lot of things going on in the industry right now. A lot's good. A lot is not good. And we're here to hopefully help you sort out what, at least what we think it might be good and what might not be good. Why don't we, you want to start with Intel or you want to start with cadence questions?

Leonard Lee:

No, I think we, let's talk about cadence because this was just this week, right? Oh, gosh. Yeah.

Karl Freund:

Read this book. This is an amazing book. Dr. Joy is like the one of those amazing people I've ever met. Dr. Joy, he is just phenomenal. Um, Lum

Leonard Lee:

Lum, we, we, yeah. I have her book. Ulai. Yeah. Got one too. Signed by and delivered. Yes. And she is an incredible individual and she did some groundbreaking research. On basically raising and quantifying and qualifying the racial and gender bias that is in AI, some of the largest tech companies. You had

Karl Freund:

to wear a white mask. She had to wear a white mask because AI did not recognize her black face was too black. And so it could no face here. So she put on this white mask and did her coding with a white mask on. So anyway, we're getting ahead of ourselves. But what we're talking about, Leonard and I had the pleasure, really the distinct pleasure and honor, to attend the Fem. ai event sponsored by Cadence which is all about trying to help women, providing resources to help women enter and remain and thrive in the world of AI. And the speaker list was amazing. Everybody from Chelsea Clinton to CEOs.

Leonard Lee:

Yeah, it was just amazing. It was quite surprising for me. I didn't really know what to expect. It was a revelation for me. Was example. It was an Yeah. It was a totally powerful agenda. And I had asked, I had actually asked the CEO of cadence, right? On our end, but did you guys do this on purpose? Was this by design or by mistake? Because if it was a mistake, you guys got lucky. If it was by design, it was genius. It was an incredibly powerful program. And it was nonstop. You were getting hit constantly, nonstop with just inspirational stories, presentations, and discussions that really changed the way you thought of diversity, and I thought it was very powerful.

Karl Freund:

A couple of data points that stuck in my mind, right in my feeble mind. One of'em was guess what percent of the AI workforce is women? Female,

Leonard Lee:

probably pretty low

Karl Freund:

20%. Yeah. Guess what? Percent of a leadership in developing a I 10%. And this is data that cadence had done some research on. So, why would we leave off half of the human race? And leave them out of the development of the most important technology we've seen since. By spread, you wouldn't not intentionally. So what's wrong? Why is that? And we examined it from the entire pipeline of education through development, mentorship, coaching. And everything else needs to change in order for us to fix this problem and embrace the intellect that women can offer and the passion that women can offer in the development of AI. So it was a great event.

Yeah,

Karl Freund:

They'll do it every year too.

Leonard Lee:

Yeah,

Karl Freund:

this

Leonard Lee:

was the inaugural event, and it was a program that came out of Cadence Charity Foundation. Yeah, Cadence Charity Foundation.

Karl Freund:

Sponsored by the Giving Foundation, I think it's called Cadence Giving Foundation, but anyway, it was remarkable, just remarkable.

Leonard Lee:

So a few of the takes that I walked away with is number one, men need to be part of the diversity discussion. And quite honestly, I think it starts with dads, their daughters. And I think empathy has to be part of the equation empathy on the part of men who understand number 1, the challenges and the biases, which is was a huge keyword at the conference that women face. And in STEM in general, as well as, as a person careers related to STEM and, AI is part of that, but being able to get past these biases and then develop an empathy for the situation, but also like what you said, a recognition of how this talent pool that's there. Could go untapped. You know, it is getting tapped, but we have so much further to go to get that level of balance, I don't know, but one of the other things Carl, I don't know if you picked up on this, but the conversation was so different and you really got a sense of how diversity Enriches the conversation around technology ai and especially its application. It's responsible application that topic came up very powerfully and I think that the diversity and the voice that women bring to the table And maybe this is because they suffer biases It is so powerful, and it can't be disregarded. I think it's an essential You Part of the overall innovation discussion, maybe it's the part that checks things and make sure that we're moving towards safe and responsible directions versus just, this let's call it male dominated direction or it's maybe, innovation. Or nothing,

Karl Freund:

but one of the things I agree, and one of the things that really stuck with me was the difference, the different perspectives women can bring to AI women, and there was some data to support this women are much better than men in general. At integration across disciplines across domains. And so when you think of things like artificial general intelligence, that is really the problem right now is integrating all the different domains of knowledge. And producing true intelligence is an integration problem and that women are actually, I hate to make generalizations but in general, women are really excel. At that integration, I know the same is true with my wife. She does a much better job of integrating things than I do. I tend to focus.

Leonard Lee:

That's just not just you. Fantastic. Quite honestly, mind blowing summit. Congratulations to the. Cadence. Anirudh.

Karl Freund:

Anirudh M. Dedghan, CEO of Cadence. This is all on him, right, and his team for pulling this incredibly complex event together with all the amazing speakers they had and his commitment to addressing this. He needs to solve this problem. Yeah. He can't get enough quality employees. He needs to run his business. And he's saying, you Why can't we hire a lot more women? Well, they're not going to school. They're not graduating out of STEM at the same rate as men are. And he said, well, what can we do about that? And he put together a program to start doing that. They're investing, I think it was 8 million right from the start, just this year, and includes everything from scholarships to mentorship and so forth. It's a very holistic approach. So anyway, bravo to Cadence. Nice job.

Leonard Lee:

Yes. And thanks for inviting us. So thanks for inviting us and giving us the opportunity to participate. Yeah, for sure. So thank you. Yeah, let's jump into the tech announcements and because you and I haven't spoken in a while. It's weird a month goes by and there's some stuff that happens. It almost seems like we have to talk or do this thing every day. Yeah. Huh?

Karl Freund:

Right now, but we would probably bore people. I don't know

a

Karl Freund:

couple of things. I think that are quite timely right now. You should probably share with your audience. So 1st is what's happening with Intel. 2nd is what's happening in open AI. Yeah, because they announced their funding. Third might be the filing of an IPO with Cadence. Excuse me, Cadence. Good, Carl. With Cerebris. I just published an article on Forbes. And I pointed out in the headline, this is the first IPO of the Generative AI era people go. Really? Yes. No one's gone public and they have at least filed for a public offering now, so maybe we can hit on those three things

Leonard Lee:

Yeah, sure. That's exactly what I was thinking. So yeah a lot of news coming out of intel so Number one the foundry announcement. They have a deal with AWS that they announced as well, Gaudi three and Xeon six or granite rabbits, specifically the peak core version that was launched just last week and, of course, all of that against the backdrop of a very difficult Quarter for them. And yeah, a lot to digest by frankly, and then of course, there's all these rumors circulating around about, spinoffs as well as acquisitions, which I think it may be too premature. A lot of these things don't seem to have a lot of legs, probably, clickbait. Conjecture that's happening. So I don't know. I don't really want to talk much about those because I don't think there's a lot of reason to Argue about something that hasn't been has been proven to be anything beyond a rumor Unless you, is there anything that you would like to

Karl Freund:

share with the audience? Hey, Qualcomm definitely approached them. That's been qualified, but no, I think there's been a lot written about it. I think the general consensus of most analysts is, myself included, is not a good idea. I think Qualcomm's got a lot going for them. Why would they saddle themselves with all the problems that Intel has? And also, you gotta think. If you were Pat Gelsinger, would you sell now? There's gotta be, you gotta be approaching a bottom. It's got, you got There's hopefully one way up, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I don't think he'd be interested in selling that. But what do I know? I don't know Pat personally just.

Leonard Lee:

It's pretty clear that Intel accelerated a lot of things. They accelerated Meteor Lake, they accelerated lunar lake. Yeah. And those had implications. Right? And one of the things I wrote about was how making adjustments to your roadmap in response to competition. Has a price, right? And the previous quarter definitely an eyesore. It was difficult for wall street and the industry to really accept anything, but way. But I think We can't forget that they are executing on a roadmap, which they've had to adjust, right? I think one of the things that we can't lose sight of is that they are on a trajectory. And so if we look at the. 5 notes in 4 years, but they've been moving along this for. Almost four years now, right? And they also have products that are coming to market now that are starting to prove that, Hey, these guys are actually delivering on some of the quote unquote promises and in terms of performance scale, as well as. Power efficiency that we're being expected, right? And especially with the advent of Lunar Lake. Yeah, I think there's opportunities for everyone to be reminded that, hey, look, there are some positive things happening here as part of this effort to reconstitute not only Intel's business, Which is a very complex one, right? They have a foundry business as part of their portfolio that it is going through an enormous change, right? And it's a key dependency to a lot of the products that are on their product roadmaps. And I think we'll probably think be thinking differently about Intel in about 6 months once Lunar Lake has had time to settle into the market and express its impact and its value to the Intel strategy, but also now, Aero Lake. And then we're going to have Panther Lake coming in. And so these are all pretty hopeful events. And product releases on the roadmap that I think shouldn't be disregarded. Yes, there's all this other stuff that's happening from a financial perspective that's really challenging and makes things look really dire. But even from a roadmap perspective for the five nodes and four years, there's been some simplification, which I think will de risk. The next few months

Karl Freund:

Dropping 20 was it was a good move. Right? But think about it. It took a long time for Intel to get into the spot. It's going to take them a long time to get out of it. 1st, you have to at least get up to some level of parity with AMD and Nvidia. Then maybe leadership I think you're starting to see parent, right? If you look at Xeon 6 with the performance cores and efficiency cores, they can now compete. Now, can they win new design wins? I don't know. I think a lot depends on what AMD announces next week. Um, return right now, Intel has by far the best PC chip. It also runs AI, runs it really well. Gaudi 3 is a little different story. It's a really good chip. They won, they got a design win. The IBM Cloud. Yeah. I suspect there'll be another one coming soon. That looks really good, really probable.

Yeah.

Karl Freund:

They would be able to get another design win. Yeah. But after that, it's going to be tough sailings just because it's the last of its kind after that, and they converge it with the GPU and sorry about the interruption there. Oh, no, no, no, no.

Leonard Lee:

Everyone should know. It's the family show. It's a family

Karl Freund:

show. My dog has daisies. Yeah. Um, but, I do think we're seeing the signs of a stabilization of the business. And it's, it is unfortunate they still have one major transition to go, which is from Gaudi to the converged GPU and Gaudi ASIC. So, yeah, I mean, that's going to happen late 2025.

Leonard Lee:

Obviously, there's still a pipeline on the gen AI supercomputing side of this gen AI opportunity. There's also some questions about how sustainable that spend is and, for all we know, Toward the beginning of next year, we might start to see some growing interest about inference computing and the economics there may play favorably, or the economics that Intel with Xeon 6 and Gaudi 3 might be able to bring it to the table might provide some, favorable economics there. We still have to see, I think Intel has to really figure out how to position Gaudi. And I think maybe IBM can help

Karl Freund:

them,

Leonard Lee:

right?

Karl Freund:

Well, the fact that there was a design win is a big help, right? Because there hasn't been any design win for Gaudi to speak of. And at least with the IBM cloud behind them and perhaps a couple of the smaller cloud providers signing up. Because it's got really good performance. Performance for what performance per dollar. The challenge is people buy roadmaps, not just chips. And so they have to buy into this roadmap to to get there. So, and the soft software is they've done a pretty good job on the software, but they got a long way to go and a long way to go.

Leonard Lee:

Their client computing business is the big one. Right. And, and so we'll see how lunar lake how the market responds to that. And, so far, some of the benchmarks that have come out seem to be pretty positive, then it's also a testament to Qualcomm. I mean, it really looks like Gerard Williams and team have done some wonders with Orion. Not

Karl Freund:

dragging some is later this month and we'll see what else they're going to do with Gerard's teams. CPUs, for those who are not familiar he was, he came in through an acquisition, Nuvia, he had a chip that was designed only for servers, and they did a student body left and turned it into a really fast laptop processor with really good AI from Qualcomm. Um, That's going to be coming to a phone near you, I suspect.

Leonard Lee:

You have to hand it to them. They shook up the world, the PC world, right? I think, Intel has come back in response with something pretty. Yeah, they responded very quickly. Especially on the GPU side. Jim McGregor and Dave Altavia and I, we covered this when, we were in Taipei for a tech tour as well as, Computex. So, yeah, we anticipated coming pretty strong with the GPU, but hey, you want to talk about, open AI.

Karl Freund:

Yeah, it's just real quick open AI. They raised, 6. 6Billion dollars at a valuation of 157Billion dollars, which is roughly the same valuation as. Pretty major companies. A lot of people are like, really? That's a lot. That's a very high valuation. And so I've had the press call me and they say, is this valuation crazy? I'm like, Who knows? Right? Um,

Leonard Lee:

yeah,

Karl Freund:

who knows if there's any Software company worth 167 billion. Yeah, it's probably open AI. Uh, they continue to drive towards, um, artificial general intelligence. The investors do have the opportunity to get their money back if open AI does not complete their transition from a partial not for profit partial profit with a capped profit. They're getting out of that and they're making it a for profit company. So to convince investors that he really means it, Sam Alton said, okay, great. Give us your money if I don't Consteer this company to a fully for profit company. I'm giving you my back and wow That's pretty strong statement Nvidia was it was an investor although it's fairly small amount about a hundred million dollars very small amount Microsoft put in a billion see who else Oh SoftBank put in about a half a billion. So there's obviously other investors to get you up to the 6. 6 billion. Much of that came from Thrive Capital

and

Karl Freund:

they put it in 1. 25 billion. So yeah, a billion here, a billion there, presumably you're talking about real money.

Leonard Lee:

No, but I think you gave the perfect answer. Who knows what the question is? But and that's you know, generally That's actually what we heard from the vc panel At fem. ai because that question came up right and they said we try to study the market we try to study our founders And then I We don't know, but, we place bets where we think they make sense, and then, you cross your fingers, but participant,, Apple pulled out. Right. I thought that pulled out. There's some talk about, they wanted to Have a perception or they wanted some independence They wanted to be seen as a neutral party and all this ai stuff, which I think is fair because there are competitors out there, right? They're open source competitors and There's no assurance that open AI is going to be at the forefront of this quote unquote generative AI race going forward. And we've already seen the narrative change so much, right? In the past, I would say 20 months now, but there, there's really no way to tell, right? And the other thing that's really problematic is that everyone's still hunting for the end market. Monetization, not the monetization you talk about all the time, right? Which is the picks and shovels monetization, which is, that's important, but I think these investments need to find a return from, value delivered and monetize from the end markets. And so I think that's still pretty elusive. So we'll see how things go. But I thought it was notable that Apple bailed on this.

Karl Freund:

Yeah. When you figure out Apple's AI strategy, give me a call. Let me know what you figure it out.

Leonard Lee:

Yeah, it's a secret.

Karl Freund:

It's a secret. I'm going to keep everything secret. You and me, Carl. I've got my new iPhone. There's Daisy by the way. I've got my new iPhone and I'm waiting for Apple AI, Apple intelligence to show up on this thing and I'll let you know what I think when it happens.

Leonard Lee:

Okay. Yeah. I have a funny feeling you're going to be underwhelmed, but you didn't hear that for me. Hey, I didn't say no. Hey yeah, fair and balanced. Okay. So cerebrus.

Karl Freund:

Yeah, it's real quick. So we just filed for an IPO. It's been rumored for quite some time. Filing's been made. No, no idea of valuation or number of shares or anything like that yet. But I think it's just monumental that less than 2 years after the launch of chat GPT, we finally have a company funded making silicon making systems. Step up to the plate and issue a public offering instead of going dipping back into the venture capital pool to get their next round of funding, which, of course, they'll need the challenge to Reavers has is they have. They have 1 major customer, right? G42 and the press called me up and said, so is this real and I said, well. Did you ever hear of G42 before they decided to buy hundreds of millions of dollars of Cerebrus hardware? No. Okay, do you think there might be another G42 out there that you don't know about? Yeah, probably. So I, I think there's a lot of, everybody says, well, they can't get Amazon, they can't get Google, they can't get Microsoft. Forget it. These guys are toast. I'm like, no, everybody will need a, a, I will become absolutely pervasive. It will be everywhere. Yeah, I want to tell not everybody speaks English. Not everybody understands things the way Americans understand things and. I don't understand the way Americans think about that. I mean, I think when it comes to There's lots more customers out there we haven't heard from.

Leonard Lee:

Yeah, well, I think we'll have to see about that. But I think one of the things that definitely bring to the competitive landscape is another system play like what you mentioned, right? Some of these applications that the cerebrus data center clusters are going to, and it's the con it's a condor galaxy three, I think, right? It's not that it's galaxy three. Yeah. Yeah. Galaxy three will be large enough where I think. Having, let's say CUDA, or a general purpose software layer may not be as important, given the scale of some of the workloads and the applications that we use. Stems will be running. And while there may be an argument NVIDIA will beat him because of the software, that's like the pro these days, the moat argument these days, but there is this dynamic of scale, right? And if the workload is large enough and that large language model training, especially MOE stuff is at that scale, and supercomputing is not a new thing. It's been there before CUDA and, there's for some of these very high value, massive workloads where the economic scale makes sense. It can make the software mo argument more muted Than if you were looking at smaller scale applications, right where having general purpose lends to the economics of those applications being viable, you know what I'm saying? And I think these are like government scale type things. So if you were talking about customers, maybe what Mr. Reber said has an opportunity in. Are some of these sovereign

Karl Freund:

AI wealth, Sovereign Wealth fund. So investing in sovereign data centers. That makes sense. You think about it, United Arab Reverence has a population that's interested in using AI themselves, but

yeah,

Karl Freund:

they don't want it to be in English and they'd like to be cognizant of their culture and their history and all their national assets. And the same is going to be true for every country in the world. And so countries that cannot afford this, unfortunately, they will be left behind. So if you want your scientists doing the best science, they're going to have to use AI. And so you don't want them coming over and using, and doing it on Amazon or Azure and you need to set up your own data center for your country. And you're going to see this happen in Asia. You can see it happen in Middle East. You'll see it happen in Africa and South America. I think there's a huge opportunity there for somebody in video is harvesting that field as well. Of course. So you don't have it. Oh, yeah. Um.

Leonard Lee:

Yeah, they're the guys that are really going around promoting sovereign AI, right? They're shaping that market quite on

Karl Freund:

it.

Leonard Lee:

Yeah. And I still want to wait to see how all that pans out. I know that countries like South Korea are really into it and, you know, stuff about Indonesia, we'll see how all this pans out. Again, I still think generative AI is pretty nascent, has a long way to go. Oh, yeah. And

Karl Freund:

it's hard to believe that driving so much revenue for NVIDIA, the fact is you point out that's just the picks and shovels. So it's what you do with those picks and shovels, what you build with those picks and shovels that will it will change the world. And then of course, and Jens has been talking a lot about robotics of late. Physical AI is the next big thing that's going to happen.

Yeah.

Karl Freund:

But there you've got a big, I think a big trust wall. You have to find

Yeah.

Karl Freund:

People to trust robots, especially humanoid robots.

Leonard Lee:

Yeah.

Karl Freund:

There's gotta be some work from there.

Leonard Lee:

Yeah. So we want R 2D twos. We don't want terminators. Right, right. Little too detailed. bb, what is it, BB one or the BB one? Yeah. Yeah, that's what we want. Okay, wonderful. So yeah, we got to keep an eye out on cerebrus, right? I think that's exciting. And just one more note on that. One of the reasons why I think this company is really interesting is because they introduce a whole different Architecture right? Generative AI, supercomputer, ai, super computing in general. And I think that's exciting. I do too. It has a huge impact on the competitive dynamics in this new market. But the technological innovations that have gone into this architecture are just like, I dunno, pretty amazing. It's super clever. Yeah. Yeah.

Karl Freund:

Nobody else is doing it yet. But, Donald, do you think there will be other wafer scale implementations in, say, the next five years?

Leonard Lee:

I think so. I think it's just genius design.

Karl Freund:

Yeah. Why take a wafer full of chips, cut them all up, Put them all on boards, put them in servers, and then reconnect them all from networking.

Leonard Lee:

Yeah. Instead here, you get past the whole yield issue. Yeah. And, routing around dead cores. Bad parts. Yeah. Yeah. With software, and you end up with this massive accelerator. They have 900, 000 cores on a single chip. Yeah. Yeah,

Karl Freund:

that you don't have to like you said you don't have to that's why I love about Cerebrus. They're the only company doing this. Everybody else is trying to help do NVIDIA with a better GPU or an ASIC that runs the same code that people are interested in and They're not changing the system architecture. Cerebrus is a completely different system architecture. So, if a is a system level by system, I mean, rack or multiple racks, not just to you, sir. If a is a system level problem, maybe you should have a system that's designed for it. Not just a chip.

Leonard Lee:

Yeah,

Karl Freund:

so yeah at the make sense to me. Yeah, Andrew's convinced me. I'm a fan. I can't afford one at a couple million bucks. Yeah, probably couldn't fit it my office here

Leonard Lee:

Yeah, I just think it's super clever. And yeah, people should look into it. You know the whole Chip design the whole system design. It's very, very clever. So absolutely. Yeah, it's a great, it's a great answer to this scaling problem. So, all right, Carl, we have a time for it in this episode. Good talking with you. Yeah. Thanks for tuning in and Carl. Thanks for listening. Yeah. How does everyone get to get in touch with you?

Karl Freund:

Cameron ai. com or just follow me on Forbes. But if you don't have a Forbes subscription, you can read the stuff five days after I publish it on Cameron ai. com.

Leonard Lee:

There you go. Yeah, and so all of you again, thanks for tuning in and please subscribe to the next curve rethink webcast here on youtube as well as on buzzsprout, take us on your hike your ski run, your jog, your drive, and you can listen to us on your favorite podcast platform and remember to subscribe to. Next curve research at www. next curve. com for a constant diet of the tech and industry insights that matter. And remember we're a family show.

Karl Freund:

And

Leonard Lee:

our family

Karl Freund:

shows my whole family here on the show. So I

Leonard Lee:

love it. Oh,

Karl Freund:

she's working hard. She's working hard. All right. Thank you. It's nice. It's nice to chat with you. I love it. Take care.

Leonard Lee:

Same here. Bye.

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